Jeff Francoeur and the "X" Factor
While numerous instructors begin to talk about "rotational" hitting, much is made of "separation" and "hips leading the hands"
It goes without question that the idea behind this teaching is to have players focus on using the big muscles in their body to help generate optimal bat speed and quickness, however, in the case of separation, more is not always better.
Major League example:
Francoeur creates a lot of bat speed. A LOT of bat speed. The question is how? A comparison to Manny Ramirez helps give a better look. The front shot was made from home runs to CF. Both fastballs are in relatively similar location - up and over the plate.
The frames are synched to contact, and what I first asked was where does the front foot plant for each? Typically, the bat really begins to be moved aggressively to the ball when the player plants the front foot. In this example, Francouer's front foot is planting one frame earlier than Manny. The short of this is that it means Manny is quicker. It is taking him less time to go from footplant to contact.
**** Just to give a crude understanding of a one frame difference when we are looking at 30 frame per second video (which this is): A typical high level MLB hitter takes 4 frames to go from footplant to contact. So if a player -Francoeur in this case - takes 5 frames to go from footplant to contact, that is an additional 25%. Again, this is relative to the 30 fps video. So in the 30 fps world of a hitter, one frame is a lifetime!!!****
This is a good time to distinguish quickness from bat speed. Notice they arrive at the ball at the same time, however, since Francoeur plants his foot earlier, this is an indication that he has to get his bat going earlier in order to get to the same spot (contact). Again, Francoeur generates all kinds of bat speed, it is just taking him a little too long to do so. This opens the door to conversations about his plate discipline, etc. Very conceivable from this video example that Francoeur could be a player who hits for a lot of power, along with a lot of K's and not many walks. The longer it takes a player to execute his swing, the less time he has to decide whether or not to swing. In other words, a quicker swing allows a player to see a pitch longer, committ later, thus allows him to make better decisions on whether to swing or not. A quick swing that generates significant bat speed, like Manny, affords the opportunity to hit for power and average...and who doesn't love that?!
As far as rotation and efficiency, it is hard to tell from the front exactly what is going on. Usually, the more angles the better. In this instance, however, it is pretty clear to me from the front shot that Francoeur is "pulling out" with his lower body. I created a still shot from the side that tells the story:
Both players are at foot plant. Francoeur's hips are MUCH farther open. WAAAAY farther open. And also notice the angle of his bat. While I have nearly 3000 clips of MLB hitters, this bat angle at time of footplant is by far the most horizontal, bat head pointing towards pitcher, that I have seen - and there really is not anything else like it that I remember seeing. Again this shows how much bat speed he is generating, since he does catch up by contact, but look how much farther his bat has to travel. No wonder he has to start his swing early! The lower body really just looks like it gets the heck out of the way so he can whip it through with his arms. I buy that he has a 4 handicap - would love to see him hit a few off the tee!
Long story short - it takes Francoeur too much time to create his bat speed. More efficiency means a quicker swing with minimal, if any, loss in bat speed.
As far as a "fix" for Francoeur....uh....this is where it gets tricky. A young 1st rounder who has burst on the scene and is on pace for 30 Hr 100 RBI season and I'm pointing out "flaws". Hey if I could trade places with him, I would, but my purpose here is to look for areas of improvement, and this is the big one I see. 30/100 is nice but there is other evidence to suggest Francoeur does need to improve his plate discipline to reach his potential as a hitter:
Sabermetric analysis of Francoeur Stats
**** I'm not a saber-genious by any stretch, but the easy conclusion is that since Francoeur does not draw many walks, he has more at bats. So while he may have 30 HR and 100 RBI, another player with those same numbers and 50 more walks produced the same amount in less at bats. Obviously he made less outs, so overall he was more productive on a purely numbers basis. Just a quick comparison to teammate - Adam LaRoche has the same number of HRs (17) and 12 less RBI in 106 fewer at-bats. Have to credit Francoeur though, because whether or not you believe in "clucth", he was leading baseball in 2-out RBI (last I heard). But it is this observation of Francoeur's stats that lead me to wonder why his walk to strikeout ratio was so poor. Point of the analysis is to look for something in Francoeur's swing that might allow him to quicken his swing, allowing more time....making him a better hitter. ****
Mr. Pendleton and the rest of the Braves player development staff, along with Francoeur, this one is up to you. To the degree you wish to address this issue is your decision. If you are happy with your production, just go on and do your thing. Either way, I don't think this is something you just go try and overhaul. It would more likely need to be a long, gradual process - lots of swings concentrating on using the body to bring the hands/bat around. Perhaps the easiest place to start is try to get the bat in a position more similar to where Manny is at the time of footplant.
Getting back to something I often read about is this idea of creating "separation" or the "X" factor. Now judging from this picture it is clear that Manny has much less "separation - the differential amount between the rotation of his hips and shoulders is a lot less. But I would suggest that this is exactly why his swing is so much more efficient. While there is an element of separation that occurs in both swings, it seems to be too far overblown from an instructional standpoint. While I have yet to see a high level MLB hitter who does NOT initiate the swing with hip rotation, there are many players who will fall short of their potential because their hips open too much before engaging the bat. And from what I see in younger players, who much more often suffer from bat drag and long swings, this is a typical cause of the problem (on the opposite spectrum of no rotation at all).
Applying the concept of the kinetic chain is becoming more popular when describing the swing: each body segment (hips-mid section-shoulders-arms-hands-bat) links and transfers momentum to the next. But remember, even a strong chain can break if it is pulled too far apart.
So if you're out there working on separation and X-factor, fine, but please keep in mind that your hip rotation is no good if it does not contribute to bringing the bat around quickly and powerfully!
I just wanted to say that this is an awesome thing you are doing. I appreciate all the time I know you have put in doing analysis. The Giles' breakdown was wonderful, but this is an issue that will help many people understand that they should not go overboard on the separation. Thanks and please continue doing these.
Sincerely,
Bryan Lucas
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Thanks Bryan
the more feedback I get the better I can gauge which topics to tackle. I've got a few more in mind....currently working on none other than A-rod himself.
quick thing I didn't mention in the article - another misconception seems to be that the player's front foot needs to be open (at least 45 degrees) in order to rotate.
Manny, Barry, Griffey land relatively closed and I don't think they have any rotation problems. Do you think golfers can't rotate because their front foot doesn't open up? I don't think so. Maybe I'll touch more on that later, but the side shot of Manny/Jeff is a good place to start
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Hi Jeff,
Very good obsevations. Your analysis seems to be right on the spot. Keep up the good work. The site is looking great.
Tom
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Great analysis. Quickness AND batspeed. I have always tried to teach quickness first then batspeed. The longer time you have to view the pitch the more successful you will be as you move up in competition.
Interested in your thoughts on this subject
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Jeff, another very good analysis.
Helps me to understand video and hopefully to help my students.. Thanks, Dave.
dave s from SetPro forums.
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Tom, Kevin, Dave,
thanks for the comments.
To reply briefly Kevin, I would probably choose quickness over batspeed if I was forced to pick one. There is something to be said for being able to put the barrel on the ball consistently.
That said, a player reaches a point where hitting a hard line drive needs to go through the gap instead of falling in front of an outfielder.
In my exeprience, personally and coaching, it has been easier to help a player with a "quick" swing add bat speed as opposed to helping a player with a "long" swing get quicker.
The player with a quick swing already has a sense of the limited amount of time to get the bat to the ball, and with some increased intent and a little feedback, bat speed can shoot right up. The long swing guy is usually having to learn how to use his body in a different way and physically changing the swing can present much more of a challenge.
Jeff
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These are very informative and well done breakdowns of the subtle things that can make or break a swing!Even with my years of experience as a hitting instructor I would have missed several of key swing flaws without the slow-motion analysis. At first, I too noticed (from the front) that Francoeur's bat started from an unusually low angle.It was so much more evident from the side angle.Keep up the great work.It is so nice to find a web site that challenges me to learn more.Most other sites only offer basic advice. THANK YOU!!!!! BRYAN
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hey, really enjoy watching all these different hitters. Really helps me study the art of hitting especially for getting ready for my HS season. Just one quick question: Would u say that the hips begin to open slightly as soon as the front foot makes contact with the ground, then when the foot plants the weight moves foward and the hips turn leading the hands? please right back or email me back to clarify when the lower body should begin to move. thank you
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yes I would say that the hips begin to really open around the time of toe-touch. Then there is a brief time between toe-touch and heel plant where a stretch occurs accross the torso which is the eccentric motion prior to concentric rotation of the torso/upper-body. Stretch-reflex, rubber band, serape effect....however you want to think of it.
I would also say the the weight is going to have stopped moving forward by the time footplant occurs. Simply no time to plant, shift and then swing.
But there is a definite sequential pattern between the hips-shoulders-arms/hands that allows each segment to move faster than the one before it. This is called the principle of summation of forces.
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Thanks for the response. So in other words, the hip open up as soon as the toe touches. Then there the weight begins to move foward and the hips open up and the swing begins at the heel plant. Do you have any videos on Manny Ramirez and Chipper Jones. And also what do you recommend I do or buy in order to get more quickness?
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The weight should be moving forward as the stide foot moves forward and yes, I'd say think 'stay closed' with the hips until the time of toe touch. Then just unload.
Type in "batting practice" under the search function on the tool bar to the left and there is some footage of all the Atlanta Braves (as well as other teams) taking BP.
And other than the clip at the top of this page, there is a very good clip of Manny here:
http://www.swingtraining.net/top10.html
Also more Manny and Chipper video here:
http://www.swingtraining.net/Swing.html
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EXCELLENT analysis! I can't believe you do this with no other technology other than photos and video.
I would love to hook him up to a Motion DNA unit to get some real objective data on his swing, like his rotation speeds at all of his joints (kinematic sequence).
[quote]So if you're out there working on separation and X-factor, fine, but please keep in mind that your hip rotation is no good if it does not contribute to bringing the bat around quickly and powerfully![/quote]
I agree that "seperation" is the problem, but the fix can't be tweaked with technique.
Im guessing that his lower body is so fast that his upper body is not strong enough _in comparison to his lower body_ to keep up, so it's lagging behind.
In addition, the law in athletics is that if you start it you must be able to stop it. If he is not strong enough to maintain an _efficient_ sequence, he's probably not strong enough to decelerate against the force he's generating, so the part that is working too hard will eventually break down somewhere along the chain. I'm guessing his back.
Great blog... What a find!
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Mr. Francoeur -
thanks for the comment. It is a little tricky with basic video equipment, but sometimes you have to make the best out of what you have.
I have seen the Motion DNA setup - Zig Z. was here at Tech to measure some of the HS players that we were doing a study on - but I didn't really get a chance to ask questions and see how it all works.
I understand your position about strength deficit, but I still feel like mechanics/technique plays a role (maybe or maybe not specific to Jeff Francoeur).
For example, weight distribution at the time of stride foot plant will effect how rotation takes place.
Flexibility may also be an issue. Here is a question: is it possible for a hitter to be too flexible across the 'serape' muscles of the torso? Just like too much laxity in the shoulder joint opens the door to injury. Torso flexibility may be great for golf, but not to the same extent for baseball due to time contraints.
_____________
And FYI, to those who have not seen Mr. JP Francoeur's site, it is surely worth a visit:
JP FITNESS FORUMS
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Great site. This is the stuff our kids need to see and understand. Coaches can also benefit if they are open to change.
Thanks
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